Lee 450-200 Penetration Test Results

Hey everybody Got my Lee 450-200-1R mold a week ago and have been casting a lot and experimenting. I did some penetration testing and thought you all might be interested in the results.

For test medium, I took a stack of newspapers and wet them down good with the hose then compressed them tightly into a six inch thick pad. I placed 4 sections of fresh dry 3/4 inch plywood(not OSB) into the bottom of a box and then put the wet paper pad on top of them. Not a highly scientific test but it works for me.

I charged my 5.5" barreled Pietta 1851 Sheriff .44 with 25 grains of Pyrodex P and rammed home the new slugs from my Lee mold. These were cast from pure lead roof flashing.

I fired two shots from a distance of 5 yards, the first of which penetrated the wet packed newspaper entirely and blew through the first sheet of plywood, lodging firmly in the second. The exit hole in the plywood was massive and a great deal of damage was done.

The second shot acted basically the same as the first other then the fact that the slug simply dented the second board instead of lodging in it.

The bullets were both significantly flattened and measured close to 5/8 of an in at the widest point

Overall, I was surprised and impressed with this performance at a 25 grain charge. Beyond my expectations for sure. I've got an 1858 loaded with these same slugs and 35 grains of pyro P, can't wait to try that one out. Got a feeling I'm gonna need more plywood.

Has anyone chronographed the Lee 450-200 conicals? At 25 grains of powder from a 5.5" barrel I'm curious of the velocity....

I also should mention that when I compressed the newspapers, I placed the wet stack on the concrete and mashed them down with a sheet of wood. Most of the water was squeezed out underneath. The consistency was tough and only slightly damp. Very happy with the results and I'll be doing more testing in the future.

Have you considered firing a few round balls into the same medium as a control? It would give you a good relative comparison and give more meaning to your results.

hawkeye2 said:

Have you considered firing a few round balls into the same medium as a control? It would give you a good relative comparison and give more meaning to your results.

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Plus, I would like to see results using real black powder.

hawkeye2 said:

Have you considered firing a few round balls into the same medium as a control? It would give you a good relative comparison and give more meaning to your results.

Click to expand...

Thats a good idea. Will do next time around.

In the past I have fired a ton of round balls into all sorts of medium with this same pistol. I know exactly what they are capable of.

With 25 grains of Pyro P and a .454 round ball I don't think it would have penetrated the first board. These boards were simply crammed together with no airspace between them, more like one solid block than a lot of separate units. My guess is that it would have probably went through the paper block and put a nasty dent in the plywood. Will have to test side by side to be sure of course.

I'm used to always using round balls, I guess that's why the amount of penetration the Lee bullet gave surprised me so much. The fact that it weighs 30% more makes a tremendous difference upon impact.

Rifleman1776 said:

hawkeye2 said:

Have you considered firing a few round balls into the same medium as a control? It would give you a good relative comparison and give more meaning to your results.

Click to expand...

Plus, I would like to see results using real black powder.

Click to expand...

Sounds fun. I have done some wet pack testing some years ago. I'd like to do it again with a variety of BP handguns.

Don

Don said:

Sounds fun. I have done some wet pack testing some years ago. I'd like to do it again with a variety of BP handguns.

Don

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It really is a blast

I don't memorize manufacturers' numbers. How about posting a photo of a cast unfired Lee 450-200-1R to see what sort of bullet it is.

Here's a picture of one from the web. Its a regular round nose slug with two grooves for grease. This projectile is made specifically for black powder revolvers and is very popular, so a lot of guys know them just by the model number.

http://img1.prosperent.com/images/250x250/www.sinclairintl.com/userdocs/skus/p_100100587_1.jpg

Mike Beliveau did some tests with these and the Kaido conicals. The results of the seven part series are on youtube.

While they have taken deer, the Keith inspired Kaido conicals are far better rounds.

I shot a bunch of them Friday and they grouped as tightly as the round ball. They were real head turners at the range too, several commented how they'd not like getting hit by one of those rounds!

Yall got me going and I pulled the .44 Remington out to check on a maybe if what if this thing might fit.

FIRED IN CENTERFIRE EXPANSION TEST

And, if this one is molded from straight lead and loaded in the 1858 (without the gas check) it will just barely rotate under the loading ram and be loadable.
Reckon I oughta soak some paper and see what she'll do.

GoodCheer said:

Yall got me going and I pulled the .44 Remington out to check on a maybe if what if this thing might fit.

FIRED IN CENTERFIRE EXPANSION TEST

And, if this one is molded from straight lead and loaded in the 1858 (without the gas check) it will just barely rotate under the loading ram and be loadable.
Reckon I oughta soak some paper and see what she'll do.

Click to expand...

You're gonna have to try it now! You have my interest for sure. Whats the diameter and make of that baby?

swathdiver said:

Mike Beliveau did some tests with these and the Kaido conicals. The results of the seven part series are on youtube.

While they have taken deer, the Keith inspired Kaido conicals are far better rounds.

I shot a bunch of them Friday and they grouped as tightly as the round ball. They were real head turners at the range too, several commented how they'd not like getting hit by one of those rounds!

Click to expand...

Yup, I've watched a ton of Mr. Bellevue's videos, including the ones you're talking about. The Kaido bullets seem pretty handy. What did you pay for a mold?

That's an old Lyman 452484 mold that had been hollow pointed by Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com.
The gas check base is pretty much like the step that they used to put on military load conicals.
It's a little bit longer than the Lee mold and will further limit the powder charge by just a smidgen. well, there aint no telling 'til she goes bang a few times.
On a side note, I'd thought about having a mold tricked out for the .44 Remington like I'd done for the .36. Maybe this mold for the .45ACP will work any way.
Also, this mold had been altered quite a while back, taking the Lyman .45 Plains Rifle mold and making it work for other arms.

Well, it looks like the gas check plug inserted as far as it will go makes a humdinger for the .44 Remington.
It certainly won't be optimum with all those lube grooves making it longer and taking up powder space.

Capnballhunter said:

GoodCheer said:

Yall got me going and I pulled the .44 Remington out to check on a maybe if what if this thing might fit.

FIRED IN CENTERFIRE EXPANSION TEST

And, if this one is molded from straight lead and loaded in the 1858 (without the gas check) it will just barely rotate under the loading ram and be loadable.
Reckon I oughta soak some paper and see what she'll do.

Click to expand...

You're gonna have to try it now! You have my interest for sure. Whats the diameter and make of that baby?

Click to expand...

Gave it a try today. Can't maintain good enough alignment when seating the bullet.
A while back I looked at having a mold altered, getting a .444 diameter sizer die or a reamer just for that .44 Remington and decided to spend the money elsewhere. What I used to do way long time ago was to roll a taper on to the body of the bullets. Might be time to do it the old way.

Capnballhunter said:

What did you pay for a mold?

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The six cavity mold was $89 plus shipping, $101 total I think it was. They don't come with handles and those are $11-15.

Thus far I'm quite happy with my molds and the conicals.