Need Repair Ideas

send it to bobby hoyt he can bore it out to 50 or 52 smooth bore. about 65 bucks . smooth bores are just as accurate and have been around just as long if not longer.

Don't mean to reveal my low brain power but...still confused on the drum thing. Now please realize since I have no idea what I'm talking about I'll be a little off. I am assuming the threaded part of the drum has a flat end- like the end of a big bolt. That gets screwed into the tapped hole on the side of the barrel. You could screw in the drum until the center of the end bumped the breech plug in the barrel BUT then the rim/edge of the drum will be a little shy of the bore. That would leave cavities where powder residue might build up. I don't think you could concave the end of the drum before screwing it in because you would not know how to allign it. If you screw the drum far enough for the rim/edge of the drum's end to meet the bore- then there is a flat area of the drum proturuding into the bore, and the whole thing would have to be forward of the breech plug. If the flash hole on the drum came right to the face of the breech plug- then you would have to make a depression of some sort in the breech plug so the drum could be screwed in that far. A flat bottoming type drill when the hole for the drum was drilled?
How were the rifles of the day done?
As I said- I never really thought about this thing.

If we are talking about the CVA Patent breech design, the threaded hole for the drum is not just thru the barrel wall in front of the breech plugs face.
It actually is drilled behind the face of the breech plug, thru the barrel wall, thru the breech plugs threads almost to the other side of the threads.

This allows the drum to screw almost all the way thru the breech plugs threads.

Apparently, after the drum is installed a hole is drilled in line with the center of the barrels bore. This hole goes thru the face of the breech plug and thru one wall of the drum, stopping before it gets to the other wall of the drum.

A hole is drilled down thru the center of the drum and it eventually intersects the hole that was drilled thru the breech plugs face.

These two intersecting holes create the fire channel that will connect the nipple to the powder in the breech of the gun.

Someone around here has a nice photo of a crossectioned CVA breech that clearly shows all of this.

Maybe they can add it to this topic?

No worries Crocket I'm about as lost as you are perhaps more. I've Googled a few of the parts names but to no avail. Zonie's right a picture would be helpful.

Were it me.... I would call Bobby Hoyt & ask him IF he can rebore & rifle the barrel & put the breechplug & drum back as it originally was. This would put the rifle back together with no mods & easy for you & safe. Only dif. is it would be a .50 cal. with a brand new bore instead of a .45 with a rusted bore.

If Bobby Hoyt cannot do it, I would hang it on the wall & mark it up as experience.

From what I can see, it is a Juker (Pre CVA) made in the early or mid 1970's and was a Kit & the sold in Woolworth, Woolco & similar dept stores & catalogs for $69.95 to $79.95. The cost of rebarreling it & new drum & breechplug, mods to fit the stock, then lock issues & etc, I would hang it or buy a used barrel of eBay in better cond.

Problem is, allot of the used barrels you are going to find are in the same cond. for the same reasons. Once in a while you find a new on on eBay, but the issue is it must be exactly the same, as you may not be able to do the mods yourself & we get back into a $ issue on a $80. rifle. You can easily put 300-400 bucks in this & still have a $ 80. rifle. But it IS your money...... :idunno:

All that being said, they ARE good barrels, so if a simple rebore is applicable & affordable, then I would go that way. However the breechplug must come out to rebore & rerifle it.

Keith Lisle

Thank you all- I appreciate it. That CVA system was what I suspected- the strength of the drum adds to the breech plug staying in the barrel. I have heard for years how the drum went into the breech plug but never saw a photo showing the detail.
I'll bet that most folks building a percussion muzzle loader buy a barrel with the drum already in place or get a Hawken with a patent breech. Maybe that's why the issue isn't discussed more.
Now :stir: on the period correct way... any idea how it was done? I suppose you could drill and tap into the breech plug like the CVA but then have a center type drill that just drilled a connecting hole from the bore without the cone type shape.

rj morrison said:

smooth bores are just as accurate and have been around just as long if not longer.

Click to expand...

Oh that is ridiculous. :rotf: If smoothbores are just as accurate, nobody would be rifling barrels today or for the past 300 years.

Smoothbores are Not as accurate as rifled barrels, period. However, that being said, I have seen some pretty accurate shooting with smoothbores up to about 50 yards. At that point, the accuracy dif. starts to shine for the rifled barrels.

Keith Lisle

Here is 4 (typical) breech styles.

(top left) Chambered Breech is typical of the Hawken style snail breeches, English square hooked and Pete Allen's Ohio patent breech.

(top right) the CVA mess that has been discussed here

(bottom left) Modified patent, got around Nock's "patent" by making a couple of slight changes

(bottom right) as seen on a typical conversion back in the day where a drum was simply tapped/screwed into the flash hole.

For comparison, the second pic is the "patent" Nock design.

Birdog6 I think your right about it being a Jukar. There are a lot of similarities. I am missing the bolster and the trigger is different but the rest is the same down to the brass parts and the caliber. Check it out here. Link.

This ones selling for $225 same. Maybe worth it to buy it up trade out the stock and done. My guns working again. I'm sure every one here will say may be worth it to buy the other gun use it and hang mine on the wall. Guess I got some options at this point.

One more note. After a little more digging I found Traditions had purchased this design and is selling it as a 50 cal kit for $314.

Some one mentioned the similar pedersoli of yrs ago.
it was very similar on first view but the barrels were a mite thinner maybe 13/16
the bigger difference was that the joint between the stock pieces was further forward and the piece between them was cast brass nose cap and allowed the maker to leave off the forestock substitute an underrib and sell a half stock with the same parts.

I don't know if this post will add anything to this discussion, but I'll toss it in for fodder anyway. I have the "new" style of cap lock CVA barrel that you are discussing. I purchased just the barrel for cheap as it is in excellent shape, and frankly, I don't think it was ever shot. It's not a "recall" barrel.

So, my existing T\C stock has a very (and I mean VERY) accurate GM 15\16" barrel on it. That GM is "moving" to a new Leman project.

So, the CVA is getting sent to TOW to get the breech cut by 6" and have a tang installed (I think it's about 6" so the first CVA slot will line up with the T\C brass wedge key slot(.....I gotta measure twice....and tell 'em to cut once!!) and I will then install a second slot for a second brass key....like the CVA's have. So....I'll end up with a lighter short barrel....UMmmmm....Ghee, what will it be? A TCVA?

Dave

Got the gun back today. Lock is all good to go and working well. I'll have to find time to take it out and see how it shoots. The gun smith said it looked like some one had tried to clean the gun with a steel brush and a drill which destroyed the rifling. I may be naive but I'm not that crazy. It made me think though. This is the only muzzle loader I've ever owned but not the only one I've shot. When I look back on it this gun has never been that accurate. Now I wonder if part of the reason it was given to me was that the barrel was screwed up in the first place. I certainly didn't help it but the gun may be just as good now as ever.

Well I'm dieing to know how it shoots.