Cutting patches at muzzle

I have not been able to find any youtube vids or pics showing cutting patches at the muzzle. Only descriptions as well as what's written up in the Dutch Shultz package.

Anyone seen a vid or pics? For those who do this, how big do you make the pre lubed patches or are you using Spit or pre-lubbing a strip of pillow ticking then cutting? How do I avoid long term marking up the muzzle with the blade?

I always cut at the muzzle and I always use a strip of patching. How I lube it depends on what I'm doing. For hunting I use a strip which I have pre-lubed with my mixture of beeswax-lard, and I keep it rolled up in my pouch. If I'm just out plinking I will use a plain cloth strip but dip it in a stream to pre-wet it, as needed. I attach the strip to a bag strap where it's readily available, don't have to keep putting in and out of my pouch. If you press the ball down a bit below muzzle level and then cut straight across just above the muzzle you have plenty of patch on the ball, and it won't scar the muzzle. I have to confess I don't pay a lot of attention to that, and some of my muzzles bear battle scars.

Spence

I patch with strips of old cotton bed sheets. I keep the roll of patching in my shirt pocket with the end hanging out. I put the end of the strip in my mouth while I'm pouring the powder and getting the ball out of the pouch. Place the strip over the end of the muzzle, round ball on top. Short start till the ball is flush with the end of the muzzle, and cut off everything that sticks up. Just keep the edge of the blade slightly angled up when cutting. A little excess over the ball won't hurt anything as long as it's not enough to jamb up on the rod.

Sign me up as a stripper, too. :wink:

I just tie a length to one strap of my bag and let it dangle. Lube tin is handy, and it's done in one swipe as I load.

Best for me with "cutting at the muzzle" is filling my loading blocks. It leaves no fabric sticking up to snag on stuff and jerk the balls free from the block. That can be an issue with loading blocks, whether dangling somewhere of floating around in your bag.

For me it is just quicker and easier to use prelubed, precut patches at the range or in a loading block. Mike D.

Melnic- one of the old Foxfire Books with Hershel House as a young man shows him cutting a patch at the muzzle. Years ago if you were shooting at a range a "spit patch" was pretty common. It would dry out if left in the bore so it was not used for hunting, just plinking at the range. Generally a large piece of cloth was used. 100% cotton pillow ticking is available at JoAnn Fabrics and will last a long time. You put the cloth over the muzzle and used the short stub on the ball seater to get the ball about even with the end of the muzzle, then cut off the excess cloth. A straight razor makes a pretty good patch knife. You want a sharp blade.
As far as marring the browning or blue at the muzzle end. Well, that was just part of the game.
Today's store bought round cut patches that are pre-lubed are a lot easier to use and that's what I use but sometimes I don't center the ball just right, it looks okay before I seat the ball but the action of seating the ball sometimes moves the patch off center. I've often wondered if cutting the patch at the muzzle would yield better accuracy, theoretically every patch ought to be perfect that way.
How did the old timers do it? I'm not sure but a lot of the southern mountain rifles had a grease hole where a cap box on a percussion rifle would be located. I think this grease hole was filled with tallow. If that is correct then the sheet of pillow ticking was most likely kept in the hunting pouch and the area over which the ball was to be seated was rubbed over the grease hole to lube it, then put over the muzzle and the ball put in position and seated.
Finally, we are mostly interested in what happened pre-1840. The Foxfire information I mentioned is how folks in the Southern Highlands did things and the difference is that muzzle loaders never died out in that area. How the folks in the southern highlands did things from say the late 1880's to 1920 may or may not have anything in common with the pre-1840 frontiersmen of our interest.

I use pillow ticking strips cut at muzzle. My patch knife is made from a piece of a old hand saw blade that is sharpen on one side like a wrought iron trade knife work like a dream. Not a lot of marks on the barrel . They way it sit in the sheath the flat side is always down when I grab it. Just my 02.¢

I use strips of .016 thick pre-washed pillow ticking treated with 6 to one water/Balistol mix and allowed to dry while laying flat. I load the ball (sprue up and centered) over the patch strip with the finished side towards the barrel. I use a home-made "ball-set" that has a face precisely matched with the curvature of the ball and the depth to get it even (flush) with the muzzle.

I use a very sharp patch knife that is sharpened on only one side (left for right handed cutting) so I can slide the blade flat along the face of the muzzle and it won't cut or scrape the barrel. This results in the smallest patch possible, and no deformation of the ball even if it is tight to load.

Dull patch knife will allow for thread pulling and weak spots in the patch which can burn through. Double edge blades are difficult to use without scraping the muzzle. This attention to detail may seem excessive to many but the results on the target make it worth the effort for me. Quality components and tools that fit correctly really help in the accuracy department.

Pre cut patches "seem" to have been the norm in the 18th c., from evidence of grease and sometimes patches found in old patch boxes, and the lack of documented "patch knives". Also extreme wear on the dove tails of original wooden box lids indicating a lot of use. More so than if only used as a tool carry. During the big fight at Boonesboro, it was reported that the women spent time in a cabin cutting patches for the men, which were probably square patches. Cutting at the muzzle might have been done when time and circumstance allowed, but would have been cut with ones belt knife, and not a special knife carried for patch cutting. Then we can move on to coned muzzles, which some, or many, believe most, or many were. If a muzzle is coned enough, or the ball size is small enough that a patched ball is easily thumbed in, what holds it place as you cut? Another point to ponder is wasted patch material. In cutting at the muzzle, you have to waste enough to provide a grip on the cloth so as to not cut yourself, and the waste is considerable when you add it up shot for shot. Pre cut square patches leave little to no waste, when waste might be a concern. There is no measurable difference in accuracy between muzzle cut, square cut, or round cut. As long as the patch surrounds the bullets waist, it will be as accurate with any of those.

I have a patch knife (never used yet) a buddy made me when he found out about my muzzleloading fetish and as I didnt tell him anything about it he must have gotten the idea somewhere? I believe there did have patch knifes? maybe not. Mine is on a lanyard (no sheath so kinda dangerous unless only used in practice?)

As you can see from the other responses, this is very much an individual game. Do yer own thang. For me, it is strips of pre-lube patching, cut at the muzzle while on the range. For ronny, I use strips attached to my bag strap. For hunting I use a loading block for follow-up shots. (BTW, I have never had to take a 'follow-up' shot)

http://youtu.be/WPrrWjX7_T4

ther's a vid fer ya!

When I plan to cut my patches at the muzzle, I make the patch strip about 4 times the bore diameter. That way, when you seat your ball, you will have enough patch material left sticking out so you can gather it together and cut it. If you make it too narrow, you will have very little patch material sticking up on the sides and it is hard to cut it all even with the muzzle.

If I am hunting, I use a pre-lubed strip and I hang it over my ramrod and just let it hang there. It is not in the way and it is very handy when you get ready to load. If I am target shooting, I like to use spit patches. To do this, after loading and cutting my patch at the muzzle, the patch strip will be left with a round piece cut out of the end. If you wish, you can cut the end of the strip even or just leave it like it is. I put the end of the strip in my mouth and carry it there until I am ready for my next load. That way, it is wet with spit and ready to0 load the next time I load my rifle. Just make sure that the strip is moist, not dripping spit when you load with it. Carrying it in your mouth may sound like it will get in your way but it just hangs there out of the way. The only down side that I have ever found is that you will often get loose threads in your mouth but you just spit them out.

As far as protecting your muzzle from being marked by cutting your patches at the muzzle, you can't. You just accept the fact that, given time, you will loose a lot of the blueing or browning off your muzzle. If this is a problem, just get some cold blue or browning solution and touch it up. You will be cutting tangentially to the muzzle so if you do it right, you will get no cut marks on the muzzle. It is important that your knife is razor sharp so you easily cut through the patch material and not have to be sawing on it. If your knife is not razor sharp, you stand a good chance of pulling your ball out of the muzzle while you are sawing on the fabric. Dull knives also contribute to ending up with cut marks on your muzzle. If you can find a straight razor, they make great patch knives.

I have never seen pictures or videos on the subject of cutting patching at the muzzle.
It doesn't need pictures, its too simple.
Place the patching over the muzzle.
Place the lead ball on the patching over the opening of the barrel.
Force the lead ball into the muzzle till the face of the ball is now slightly below the face of the muzzle.
Gather the material in one hand and cut it flush with face of the muzzle.
You now have a ball with a nice belt of patching around the ball.
Short start the ball down the barrel and finish with seating the ball all the way down with your ramrod till it rests on the powder in the breech.

This will give you a perfectly patched ball every time.

All folks who practice this will probably cut their left thumb doing this. One learns from experience.

Dutch Schoultz

Wick- you already answered my next question- I got thinking about whether pre-cut patches or cutting the patch at the muzzle was the most common. Sounds like either is pc and as you said, cutting at the muzzle wastes a lot of cloth.
For those that didn't follow a prior thread, we had discussed if there is any difference in accuracy in using a round patch or square patch and those that have tried both say the accuracy is the same.

I still think shears are better than a knife.

Yeah probably but it doesn't look as cool! I also love patch knives. I have several.


Geo. T.

Melnic said:

Anyone seen a vid or pics? For those who do this, how big do you make the pre lubed patches or are you using Spit or pre-lubbing a strip of pillow ticking then cutting? How do I avoid long term marking up the muzzle with the blade?

Click to expand...

Saliva is the most common method; Using strip patch simply chew the end, place over muzzle, press ball into bore flush with muzzle, then cut off excess patching with a patch knife or straight razor.
Easy, Cheap, and You never run out!
As far as marking up the muzzle with the blade--holding the blade flat with the muzzle and swiping across evenly will not leave a mark.

Toomuch
...............
Shoot Flint

While I admire and respect you guys that who cut at the muzzle and make it look graceful and effortless, I tried it and found it to be awkward, potentially dangerous, cumbersome and wasteful. :2

< cuts at muzzle with NO grace whatsoever and I have yet to cut myself but that days coming I'm sure! Waste is not such an issue as we "waste" caps drying out nipple? Least I do.

Does anybody find and reuse the patches? I do