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Hand Mortars

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Loyalist Dave said:
Wonder how far that thing can hurl a PC/HC grenade?

Consider this...

Unlike a mortar, where they found that the flash of the launching would light the mortar shell fuse..., you have to load that, then have somebody light the grenade fuse, THEN fire it to launch the grenade...

..., so what do ya do if you get a klatch, or a flash-in-the-pan? :shocked2:

LD

Throw it far away, fast!
 
During the siege of Charleston SC in 1780. the Hesse Cassel Jaeger Korp started using these shoulder fired mortars when the siege parallels got to within 300 yards of the Charleston fort wall. Keep in mind the Jaegers were in the siege trench out of sight from the people defending the fort. Firing the this mortar was a two man job. You had the shooter and a helper. The mortar had a long string tied to the trigger guard. The other end of this string was tied to a stake at the bottom of the trench. The shooter primed the weapon and put the powder in the chamber. The he placed the grenade in the cup fuse up. The shooter would then full cock the piece place it on his shoulder and non his head. This was the signal for the helper to reach up and light the fuse. After the fuse was lit the helper dove into the bottom of the trench. The shooter cannot see the lit fuse but he can see his helper dive into the bottom of the trench, it is now time to pull the trigger. If the mortar went off they would move the set to another location. If a klatch occurred the shooter would throw the mortar out of the trench and join his partner in the bottom of the trench. The mortar will come to a stop when it hits the end of the string, the undersize grenade will roll out of the barrel and explode. After the explosion the mortar is pulled back into the trench and the process is repeated. It sounds like fun don't it. Once in range these shoulder fired mortars kept the defenders off the wall. It would be hard to hold a wall with grenades falling around you.
 
Rifleman1776: No problem; no hard feelings. Was just clarifying.

GZRob: I'm not sure I completely understand the question. It is as comfortable as can be expected when in "lobbing position." The stock shape is the same as the piece it was patterned from.

Cynthialee: Ha. No live grenades, but Tennis balls are pretty fun. One can also use hollow steel balls. These are available from several outfits that sell architectural metalwork.

Hollow Balls

They are pretty lightweight, but heftier than a Tennis ball. I have always thought it would be neat to see a ball-shell fired from one (by someone with professional fireworks experience and the proper licensing, of course):

Ball Shell

As for specs for original grenades, DeWitt Bailey discusses the Musket-Mortars and their ammo in his book, "Small Arms of the British Forces in America 1664-1815" (pgs 209-210). I suspect that the specs would be much the same:

Shells:
Exterior Diameter: 2.42 inches.
Interior Diameter: 1.701 inches, 1/64the of the shell: 0.037 inches.
Thickness of iron at top: 0.302 inches, 0.415 inches at the bottom.
Dimensions of the Fuze Hole at top: 0.500 inches, 0.463 at bottom.
Weight of Iron in Shell: 1 lb., .03 ozs.

"The quantity of powder to fill shells is found thus: the Interior diameter being given, first find the number of cubicle Inches in the cavity by cubing the interior diameter [1.701] and multiplying it by 11 and dividing the product by 21 which will be the cubical inches in the cavity. Then divide them by the number of cubical inches in a pound of ordnance powder and the quotient will be the pounds of powder to fill the shell."
 
I was doing a pretty good job resisting the urge to buy one of these shoulder busters until this past weekend. Someone local offered me a barrel for too good of a price.
Now understanding how much I hate wood work I would like to see if anyone knows of an example of an earlier version than the default Brown Bess stocked grenade launcher?
Maybe a matchlock version? The only lock that I recall laying around is a miquilet-like one (internal main spring). Pictures would be appreciated.
It has no touch hole or tang hole yet.
 
Using different calc. it's about a 2-1/2 cubic inch interior with more than 600 grains (or 1/12th of a pound; about 1.4 ounces) of black powder bursting charge in a brittle cast-iron ball.

That'll stop any nasty neighbor's covetous canine from purloining someone's puerile poultry if you're close enough for horseshoes!
 
handmortar-1.jpg


The barrel that I picked up is very similar to this one. Has anyone found evidence of other pre-flintlock hand mortars like this?
 
That's not "pre-flintlock." It IS a flintlock; a Spanish patilla, or miquelet, flintlock. These were made well into the beginning of the 19th C.
 
Well, when you do get around to shooting it, avoid shooting it from the shoulder. While they may look like they are meant to be fired from the shoulder, the butt is to be placed on the ground and let the earth take the brunt of the recoil.

I know this because our unit had one and we learned through experience and sore shoulders.
 
Thank you for sharing that link. That is quite a collection of wheellock hand mortars.
I am not sure that I want to add the expense and aggravation of another wheellock - but I love some of those stocks.

Alden - now you know perfectly well that the cult of acadeemic non-gun owning gun experts have decreed that miquelets are not flintlocks (first given to the king of France in 1615) so it must be true. ;-) Unfortunately the SCA tends to agree with this since it keeps more firelocks out due to the 1600 cut off. Since I have a rough psuedo-miquelet I am considering this option.
https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M93efe277327c420b10d7bd0926ada539o0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300
 
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I am the person who needed that warning even though I own a ground version of this little grenade launcher. I should know better after watching it grasshopper around from recoil.
 
Karl Helweg said:
I am the person who needed that warning even though I own a ground version of this little grenade launcher. I should know better after watching it grasshopper around from recoil.

Karl, of COURSE they were fired from the shoulder. That's why they have a stock and are actually built to rest the front on a short halberd that their special operators carried...

Stone, or small Coehorn, mortars fired the same grenadoe from the ground in a sled. They were originally fixed at 45-degrees but were eventually variable.

Both were considered "personal weapons" and faded from the field.
 
Since my earlier post I now own one of these it comes in handy at my Jaeger events. Mine worked fine right out of the box. With a tennis ball 3/4 filled with sand it will throw this grenade 240 yards. But with the weighted ball the projectile moves too fast to be seen by the public. I now use an unweighted tennis ball with two rifle cartridges ( 120 grains each cartridge less prime ) this slowed down the grenade so the public can watch the flight this goes around 130 yards. I have demonstrated several times in the past five months, a lot of cameras were out but I do not think any video has been posted on FaceBook yet.
 
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