Not Getting Caught

On another forum I mentioned a regulation during muzzleloader deer season. One reply to my comment was, (paraphrased) How would a DNR officer know if you violated the regulation?

I am wondering if that's the concensus..., if it's hard for an officer to prove, then folks should go ahead and diregard the game laws that fall into the "tough to prove" category, or do most folks obey the game laws as written?

I think most folks obey them as written, even when pretty stupid, and as an LEO myself, getting charged with a violation jambs me up with my employer when it wouldn't a non-LEO person. My dad follows the game laws, and he's a retired civilian, and that's what he taught me to do. My brother too, and he's not a LEO.

LD

I obey to the best of my ability the rules as written in the Regulations Digest we get when we purchase a hunting licence here. Having said that, I had a major in the Wildlife Enforcement section tell me that not everything in the published regulations digest is correct. So somewhere I may inadvertently be in violation of some rule that is not described correctly in the digest. But I follow the rules as published.

As far as getting caught, in more than 40 years of hunting and fishing I have only seen a wildlife enforcement officer 3 times, 2 of which were at public fishing docks. I'm pretty sure I could get away with a lot if I was of a mind to do so. But if the only reason a person obeys the rules is because they might get caught, I have a pretty low opinion of that person's character. :shake:

Most big wildlife game violators are crimials in civilain life..
disregard for the law does not stop when out hunting.
a perp is a perp!
Its all in your upbringing....
Thank God for 2 parent and extended families that care!..
It's what is keeping our socity togeather. Amen!

How would a DNR officer know if you violated the regulation?

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Well he could have watched you, or he could lie about watching you and take a wild shot at who the Judge is going to believe the DNR or the civi?

I've always followed the laws myself, the bag limits are too generous to have to cheat. I have ended friendships with guys once they have proven their personal disregard for game laws,,
but have said nothing about the guy down on his luck that poached a deer to feed his family.


What was the reg in question?

It has been my experience that even though you don't see the warden....he very well could have eyes on you. The wardens here in VT. are highly trained professionals, and while they have a very human side, they are also going to go by the book, which says to me, that I will endeavor to do the same.

I am a retired Conservation office. Believe me when I tell you, a Co is the best friend a hunter has... Or worst enemy, if he violates the wildlife laws. The violators are thieves that steal from all citizens within the state. I have heard evrey excuse their possibly can be given. Stay straight ,stand tall, and obey your local game rules and regulations. Your CO'S will always back you up if you need their assistance. Most men I have met hunting, are good honest hard working people. Some give in to temptation and violate game laws. It is human nature .Most regret what they did even if not caught. You have to become your own watchman . ATry to incourage others to do right. If we all violate laws , sooner or later no hunting will be permitted. Gun laws are under constant attack. Be carefull were you use your rifle etc. Do not argue with anti hunters . Call you CO and let him handle them. I arrested quite of few anti's and loved it.
Be carefull out there.

OK good I feel better now.

I was a bit taken aback when that mind-set appeared. I know several very successful DNR officers, and they have enough to do with flagrant violators, they don't have to nit pick..., they aren't writing tickets for folks who pull a dead deer out of the creek to field dress it on shore and cite them for "moving deer from place of kill without a tag", or other nonsense. But even with very little chance of actually being caught in a violation... I'm still not going to violate what is an obvious regulation. For example, here in Maryland one cannot use buckshot on deer. The odds are very low that a DNR officer who found me with my BP fowler is going to produce a CO2 discharger and launch my load into a bucket to be sure I'm using a single ball and not buckshot... by I don't see the need to disregard the law. I'm glad others don't either.

LD

I hardly ever rob a bank, so abiding by the game laws seems right and proper, too. :haha: It has always been easy for me, for many reasons, not least of which is that I believe they are there for good reason. Our game biologist have done an outstanding job for us in Kentucky, and I think the regulations are there to help them achieve their goals on my behalf as a hunter, and for the welfare of the game, so why would I do anything to make their job harder? The game warden's job is essential to the implementation of the policies, and I'm a big fan.

Spence

Just simply do what you know in your heart to be the right thing, and no other excuses or faux justifications need matter.

Loyalist Dave said:

I am wondering if that's the concensus..., if it's hard for an officer to prove, then folks should go ahead and diregard the game laws that fall into the "tough to prove" category, or do most folks obey the game laws as written?

I think most folks obey them as written, even when pretty stupid,

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:redface: as a boy 13-17 I poached :redface:

It was a personal thing between a Vary rich, Vary aggressive, "anti" (ie Green peace) Land owner. This man lost my partner & I a lot of areas to hunt & Trap by way of using his lawyers to intimidate land owners we trapped for. We were poor & kids so we trapped his land, fished his lake etc. Once my partner hit 18 we stopped.

Odd as this may sound, even then we never took game or fish out of season, over limit, or without the proper license.

With that one exception, to the best of my knowledge I have kept all game laws regardless of the sense they make.

sometimes we can be confronted with situations where the ethical question at hand is does one follow the letter of the law, or the spirit of the law...

Best to always keep your nose clean. You are always a witness, someone may see your actions. Why not always do the right thing. Nothing to hide or lie about later. (Unless you are a politician!!l :grin: )

A saying I heard once was "If there's anything you wouldn't want your mother to know you did, don't do it!"

The virtue of integrity, arguably one of the most important, is how I conduct myself when the only one looking is me. Following the game law is the very easiest path.

sometimes we can be confronted with situations where the ethical question at hand is does one follow the letter of the law, or the spirit of the law...

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Yes that is true and in such cases quod est necessarium est licitum, that which is necessary is lawful..., but I am refering to a situation where a person seemed to be suggesting that knowingly intending to violate a game law was alright just so long as the odds of you ever being caught were low or nil.

Using buckshot when it's not legal, or as we in Maryland have telephone deer-checking, and the law says you must shoot two doe before taking a second buck..., nothing stops a person from phoning in two false claims for taking does, so that the next time they go into the field they can take a second buck. This seemed to be OK behavior for one commentor on another forum.

LD

I think most folks obey the game laws- that's just my feeling. A few years ago I was duck hunting and an airboat came out on the lake stirring up the ducks- I was pretty mad- if I had a cell phone I would have called it in.
I think if it is just a mistake- like you compress the tail on a fish to get the length, something like that- unintentional, the CO would probably be wise from a public relations standpoint to just point out the law and let it go at that. I think most do.

I am a soldier and hunt and fish on military bases all over the country. Right now I hunt on Fort Riley in Kansas. Here like most military bases havea strict no baiting deer regulation. You also have to have your name, adress, and Kansas permit number on the stand if left in the woods. But as of yesterday there was 10 people cited, fined, lost their stands, gun or bow, and their hunting privledges for 2 years on base, and worse no they will be punished under the military law system Uniform Code of Military Justice. All this for a deer. Then I know on eof the guys and he says he didn't put the bait out, but yet he is hunting in a stand with all his info on it and 20 yards from the stand is a huge bait pile. But it wasn't him who baited it, even if someone else dumped bait and a mineral block, you had to have seen the orange carrots, yellow corn, and a big ole white salt block sitting 20 yards from you if not you don't deserve to hunt anyways, but your still hunting over bait. 10 people and today is the 5th day of the archery/primitve muzzleloader season (NO INLINES). I'm not perfect as a teenager I snuck on to peoples property I didn't have permission, knowing they could hear a bow being used, but Karma is a mofo and now that I own my own land I an forever kicking people off of it and during gun season its a full time job, good thing I own bolt cutters I havent bought a tree stand in 15 years thanks to people leaving them for me on my property. Then I have this idiot neighbor that has a stand on my property with his name on it, a huge bait pile with a trail camera, and wouldn't you know a picture of him on the camera. Even with all that evidence he still wouldn't admit to hunting on my land, even after I told him I would give his stand and camera back, if he admitted it and stayed off yet he still denied it :idunno:

Even with all that evidence he still wouldn't admit to hunting on my land, even after I told him I would give his stand and camera back, if he admitted it and stayed off yet he still denied it :idunno:

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:shocked2:
Wow!

Sean Gadhar said:

Loyalist Dave said:

I am wondering if that's the concensus..., if it's hard for an officer to prove, then folks should go ahead and diregard the game laws that fall into the "tough to prove" category, or do most folks obey the game laws as written?

I think most folks obey them as written, even when pretty stupid,

Click to expand...

:redface: as a boy 13-17 I poached :redface:

It was a personal thing between a Vary rich, Vary aggressive, "anti" (ie Green peace) Land owner. This man lost my partner & I a lot of areas to hunt & Trap by way of using his lawyers to intimidate land owners we trapped for. We were poor & kids so we trapped his land, fished his lake etc. Once my partner hit 18 we stopped.

Odd as this may sound, even then we never took game or fish out of season, over limit, or without the proper license.

With that one exception, to the best of my knowledge I have kept all game laws regardless of the sense they make.

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So if you're poor, and the rich guy has differing philosophy to yours, and doesn't want you on his land, it's still OK, since you were a kid and poor?? It was still trespassing and you show a great lack of respect for the property rights of others.

I suppose that if you were poor and there was a big mean grocery owner that ran poor folks outta his store, it would be OK to take apples from him, too?

FROM, a retired CO'S point of view. I will give you some advise. Some of the laws that are minor
are not always enforced by the officer. However that said. ATTITUDE and DEMEANOR will play a major part in the outcome. Should you be stopped for an infraction and it is brought to your attention, It is in your interest to be honest about how it occured . Argueing, lieing, etc. Will positively result in a summons being issued. The law is the law .No such thing as a minor infraction . Descretion is up to the officer at at the scene . Public relations are not based on willing to allow laws to be broken no matter how minor. But again, Attitude and Demeanor can make the difference. You may still get a summons but, toned down a bit so as to avoid a harsh penalty. Working with your law enforcement offers and reporting violations , Is a form of public relations it benefits the hunter as well as enforcement officials in doing there job.