The looks you get

cynthialee · May 31, 2013

Awesome story.

I love it when someone with a modern scoped gun gets showed up by an old powder burner.

hoochiepapa · May 31, 2013

My evolution:
cf's with four round magazines
single shot cf's
archery, wounded a cow elk-quit
black powder, poop-o-dex in Cabela's Hawken
made my first longrifle. .54 Lancaster in percussion-switched to bp
switched to flint
nuff sed

BrownBear · May 31, 2013

AZbpBurner said:
First time out with the .54 cal Deerslayer, I was approached by the Master Rifleman: beergut floppin' his zipper at every step, big shiney forehead, but what little hair he had left was rubber banded up into a scraggly (rat) "ponytail", the blothy bruises on both arms were actually once tats.

He approached, pointed & demanded to know why I was even bothering with that 'old piece of Â¢rap'. I pointed out to him that the really serious BP shooters & hunters also regard this particular make of rifle as a very Non Original pattern rifle & that he must know his stuff.

I had noticed him shooting a big Remchester 3 thousand Magnanimous caliber with a big honkin' scope ... all the way out to around 50 yards. I noticed that he had patterns all over paper - no groups. I also noticed that I was also about 6 years older than he - it REALLY irritated him that I called him 'youngster' about every sentence.

As an expert, he assured me that my old junk rifle couldn't hit anything & if it did by mistake, it would only cripple game. At the lighter end of loads, 80 gr. FFG pushes the ball around 1600 fps. He didn't know what that had to do with anything.

I challenged him to a comparison - my junk rifle vs his marvelous artillery - 5 shots, no hurry. His at 50 yards, and my (smaller) target at only 75 yards.

He pumped off 5 as quick as he could work the bolt, then came to watch me "handload".

Sure, I cheated - I had a bunch of scale-weighed loads on hand & had already separated out a bunch of balls by weight. I wiped between shots.

His closest 2 shots were around 3 inches apart.

My group was well under 2 inches, with all touching. A real rifleman coulda' done much better...

I told him that with age comes wisdom & someday he'll get there. He was a sore loser & said that I couldn't possibly have all the experience he did. I told him, in front of all his buddies (discovered later that one was actually his wife) that, on the day he was born, I was already old enough to write dirty words on the sidewalk using chalk I stole from the schoolroom blackboard. They're still laughing at him & he isn't taking it very well ...

Lastly, he wanted to know just who the hell I was, anyway. I dangled the whistle around my neck at him and told him that I'm the guy who can make everyone stop shooting just by blowing this little whistle - of course if he wants wisdom from an actual rifleman, he'll need to talk to the weekend range officer, when he's around.

You're a better man than me. I just don't have time for guys that try to buy credibility. If he'd been worth his salt, he'd have spent his time shooting that rifle rather than his mouth, and the targets would show all that needed to be said. To his great embarrassment, they did! :rotf:

Might have been fun to get him talking about all the mountains he climbs to get the trophies he claims. Gut like that tells hunting stories to go with his shooting skills. :barf:

smokymountainmike · May 31, 2013

Lorren I also do a lot of fly fishing for bass and stripers. I ran into a yahoo on the lake one day and this chap asked me if I had caught any bluegills. The guy assumed that a fly rod was only suitable for bluegills or maybe trout fishing. I didn't bother to tell this fella that I've caught a lots of largemouth up to about 8 pounds and about 20 or 25 stripers up to about 20 pounds. I just don't think this hero could have stood it if I told him the truth. Its the same with muzzleloaders.

Otter · May 31, 2013

When I showed up at deer camp for the first time with a sidelock muzzleloader I got some odd looks and the proverbial "Gee, that looks neat". Opening morning, I loaded it up and got ready to head out before daybreak. My Dad said "You're really going to hunt with that and not a real gun?" 20 minutes after legal shooting time, I was headed back to camp with my deer down. I turned to Dad and said "Yup."

It isn't/wasn't that I don't like hunting with modern firearms anymore (I still have and do), it's just another weapon that extends my personal enjoyment of hunting, much as using old single shots or milsurps or archery equipment. One year I showed up for deer season with 7 different rifles, all different types and calibers. When asked why so many I just explained I didn't know what I would feel like shooting in the morning and I wanted options.

Swede50 · May 31, 2013

I many years ago was at the target range watching a man shooting his
scoped 30-30 at about 25yards missing a pop can.
I loaded my cheap kit Cap&Ball revolver and started rolling the can.
He got mad becuse he couldn out do me with a scoped rifle.
I asked him if he wanted to trade he stomped off. :blah:

nkbj · May 31, 2013

Cynthialee said:
There are allot of misconceptions about these guns.

If it isn't an automatic sporting multiple bullets per second capability it isn't dangerous in some folks minds. Also that automatic needs to be loaded with the latest and greatest innovation in bullet technology or you are just simply under gunned. {You may want to consider that gun in our largest caliber.......}
I once had a friend insist that a roundball fired from a black powder gun is not deadly past 75 yards...It might bruise you or crack a rib but it would not kill you. :youcrazy:

So why would you want a gun that is so archaic and not even particularly deadly?

That is the kind of mentality I have encountered along the way.

:idunno: Everybody knows that falling shot caint hurt you.

BullRunBear · May 31, 2013

It's been some years since I heard someone sneer at BP guns as ineffective. Usually they talk about what a pain they are to clean.

But sometimes the looks you get are GREAT! When showing a newcomer the ropes, they enjoy the 22s and 38 special revolver. But nothing beats the smiles I see when I have them shoot the MLs. They like the percussion guns but really light up with the flintlock and a 45-70 with black powder cartridges. I always have at least 50 rounds for the 45-70. Once they ring the steel target at 200 yards they don't want to stop. :grin:

Jeff

Squeeze · May 31, 2013

you guys keep posting all this stuff, and the next thing you know all you can have is a 5 round loading block :rotf:

AZbpBurner · Jun 1, 2013

One day at the range I was preparing to shoot some cap & ball - A 2nd Model Dragoon, one of the 1858 Remingtons, and my Stainless ROA.

Down at one end of the range were a bunch of kids with AR-15s, encrusted with all the big dollar gee-gaws. I had finished up with the M1A & already heard murmurings about an "old school" with a wooden stock.

I touched off 6 hefty rounds with the ROA, then some heftier with the Dragoon.

One of the kids couldn't stand it any longer. He came over and wanted to know what kind of bullet lube I was using that made all that smoke. I told him about tallow & beeswax, casting soft lead round balls, AND Real Black Powder.

I let him fire the Remington & he was amazed with the accuracy & wanted to know more about cap & ball shooting. I told him everything I know :wink: and 20 minutes later he had written down Midway, Midsouth & the Cabelas website & the code for free shipping, plus a list of supplies to get started. He had forgotten all about the shiney plastic guns belching out piles of brass & couldn't wait to start burning black powder & cleaning up with a sinkful of hot soapy water.

He did ask about the stainless ROA & I told him that it was made in 1978, so it was about 7 years older then he.

As I was leaving later that day, he was still telling his buddies about how each chamber in the cylinder was individually loaded & that I even cast the balls & rendered my own tallow to make the lube.

Sounds like at least one of those kids was ready to give up his city boy card & begin burning black powder.

AZbpBurner · Jun 1, 2013

Col. Batguano said:
There are a lot of parallels with archery hunting.

I like shooting them at the range, and getting in to a shooting contest with a guy shooting a newer black gun. Those usually aren't as well balanced for offhand shooting, nor do they have the fine sights and long sight radius that a long rifle does. And, intrinsically, they just aren't as accurate. But, kids are ingrained in to thinking that we're lobbing knuckle balls out there, so ....

Of course, I DO like to occasionally dust off the 35 year old Ruger Model 77 .22-250 with 32x scope & begin punching bottlecaps at 200 yards. I can doit all day, to the point where it becomes boring. I've yet to see any of the kids keep up with their scoped plastic rifles, since my heavy barrel tends to distribute heat better than the AR's, which tend to change POI as they heat up.

Poor Private · Jun 1, 2013

tenngun said:
I dont know how it is in the north woods but down here in the ozarks i've oft heard shots fired as fast as the trigger could be pulled.Lots of folks think you can only get game if you fill the air with lead,and dumb old front stuffers taint got a chance.Don't ask those how old timers got game with round ball for centuries.You dont have to think when you have stupid ideas :idunno:

It's the old spray and pray method. That the police and military teach. you spray the whole are with all your bullets and pray that you hit something.

Loyalist Dave · Jun 1, 2013

It's the old spray and pray method. That the police and military teach. you spray the whole are with all your bullets and pray that you hit something.

Gosh that is right up there with "You can't hit nothin' with them antique guns, and ifin you do get lucky you only wound the animal." :shake:

I was Marine Corps infantry, and did a patch in Recon, and we were never taught that, nor did we teach that. In fact the course-of-fire for new enlistees who are on the way to becoming Marines hasn't changed in the 22 two years since I got out. The sustained rate of fire for the Marine rifleman hasn't changed since WWI, though our new rifles give us much more time to aim between shots (we don't have to work the bolt for each shot as Marines did in WWI) See Marine Corps Rifle Shooting published in 2012.

Then for the last 22 years of Law Enforcement, I was taught sight alignment and trigger control for my Ruger revolvers, my Glock, my Beretta, my Smith & Wesson, and then for the Glock I now carry. Now we also train to draw and engage targets at ten and seven feet, and to get several rounds into the bad guy without using the sights, but if they don't go down the drill continues to using the sights to put one into the bad guy's head (they sometimes wear ballistic armor). I'm a county officer, not in a big city, btw.

Sure you hear about officers who miss with a lot of shots fired..., insufficient time in training and practice coupled with high stress does that..., it's usually not due to a lack of marksmanship fundamentals.

Glad we could clear up that myth....

back to the thread...,
Most of the time folks at the range are very curious about my flintlock. The nice thing about the "smart" phones these days is when folks who see the flinter ask about or scoff at lethality, I can show them half a dozen photos of the deer taken by my flintlock. :wink:

The drawback is that even when covered a longrifle looks like a gun, so in 2002 when the Beltway Sniper was running amok in my county and places close by, the neighbors kept calling in phone tips "on the guy in Damascus with the really big guns".

Ya shoulda seen the look on the face of the FBI Special Agent who got the first one of the tips on me when I explained I had flintlock rifles and muskets.

"Flinta-what?" he asked, with a perplexed look upon his face

"Flint..., lock..., [still had the perplexed look on his face]..., um..., the rifles like you used to see on the Daniel Boone TV show, and in Last of The Mohicans," I replied.

"Ah...Okay", he replied, (perplexed look went away) and he marked the tip "unfounded". He then moved on to the next phone tip in his stack of follow-ups.

So apparently the neighbors have seen me in the funny clothing and carrying the big guns, and aren't too sure about me.... :shocked2:

LD

Vaino · Jun 1, 2013

Our deer camp at one time had 11 hunters....4 using Mlers and 7 using various CFs and all got along fine w/o any rancor or belittling what one used for hunting. Why? Because we we're there to HUNT and not proselytize one's beliefs as to what is a better type of rifle. Hunting partners should be chosen carefully and even though we were selective, some were invited then uninvited.

I belong to a predominately CF gunclub and when shooting my MLers, hardly anyone ever comes over to talk. Why? Because we're there to SHOOT.

Shooters and hunters prefer different arms whether it be CFs, shotguns, MLers or "other types of MLers" and one shouldn't display animosity if a person is using a rifle different than what one is using.

If one does encounter a person who for whatever reason asks what we deem "stupid" or derogatory questions, just don't answer or walk away.

Sometimes we who shoot MLers can become obnoxious when trying to convert or overly expound on the pleasure we derive from shooting our MLers....it's not always the "other guy".

My liking MLers doesn't depend on reactions from other people....positively or negatively....Fred

Lonegun1894 · Jun 1, 2013

I have had many tell me that my ML couldn't hit anything, and then proceeded to prove them wrong and many times outshoot them. But I see it this way. I don't care what gun you use, as long as you're using one, cause in the end, we're all on the same side. Now the ones that get under my skin are the ones who try to tell me that I am using a gun that should be banned. Like the last time I saw some "kids" lectured by a guy sighting in his 7mm Rem Mag that proceeded to give them a speech how they and their AR-15 are the problem because their AR (5.56mm/.223) was too high-powered to have any use and should be banned--all while holding his 7mm with a 12x scope on it. I had to step in and ask both sides to put one round on the bench side by side. The 7 Mag shooter shut his trap real quick.

Tommy Bruce · Jun 1, 2013

I put up with some silly questions. Are you Amish? Which side did you fight on the North or the South (this one usually comes after I tell them I am a revolutionary war reenactor). When I really want to have fun I try to explain to them that I portray a loyalist or an American fighting for the crown. When it comes to my guns, I am admittedly a bit of a snob in what I shoot. I am fortunate enough to have a decent collection, going with quality over quantity these days. But in this day and age I encourage anyone who is a shooter regardless of what type of gun they own. Occasionally I can convert someone to real lead and black powder.

RedFeather · Jun 3, 2013

Right off I'll say that I don't hunt, but I have shot most every kind of rifle, BP or smokeless. I would be willing to bet, and heavily, that a guy who goes into the woods after game with a BP rifle is a heckuva lot better shot (and knows more woods craft) than your typical one-weekend-a-year "conventional" hunter. Our range is open in the fall to those non-members who wish to sight in their hunting rifles. I don't think we get all too many muzzle loaders taking advantage of it. Just seems most BP shooters put a lot more time into their sport.

Barry Duggan · Jun 4, 2013

Lorren you already know it's the same look we get when we show up with out traditional bows instead of compounds. Each to his own, and I could care less what someone else chooses to shoot. But folks are just wasting their time if they are going to try to tell me what I should be using.

flyfisher76544 · Jun 4, 2013

dud said:
Lorren you already know it's the same look we get when we show up with out traditional bows instead of compounds. Each to his own, and I could care less what someone else chooses to shoot. But folks are just wasting their time if they are going to try to tell me what I should be using.

Pretty much sums it up here as well. Folks look at us(me and my 15 year old son) and the questions start to fly. I don't mind the questions especially if they are interested. The others who usually say, "well you only have one shot..." I always respond "How many shots do you need? I only need one." and that usually shuts them down.

Loyalist Dave · Jun 4, 2013

"How many shots do you need? I only need one." and that usually shuts them down.

:hatsoff: :applause:

LD

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