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Grains vs. Grains
- Thread starter jpg5324
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I weigh my black powder when making a volume measure. 85 grains of black powder = 85 grains of black powder. What you have to watch for is a measure made for FFg will hold slightly more weight of FFFg.
Dixie Gun Works has a table in the back of using cartridge cases to measure blackpowder. THE ADMIRAL is already asleep or I would dig my old copy out. I do know I get 18gr FFg from a 9mm case.
Dixie Gun Works has a table in the back of using cartridge cases to measure blackpowder. THE ADMIRAL is already asleep or I would dig my old copy out. I do know I get 18gr FFg from a 9mm case.
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I know I'm new here but black powder is measured by weight, substitutes are by volume.
One cc of black powder is equivalent to about 15.2 grains of weight of Goex 3fg. I found some info online for you. Hope it helps.
Link
As an added bit of info, black powder has (or had) always been called "gunpowder". I think you were referencing the measurement of that newfangled smokeless propellent the use of which, as everyone knows, is merely a passing fad. :rotf:
Link
As an added bit of info, black powder has (or had) always been called "gunpowder". I think you were referencing the measurement of that newfangled smokeless propellent the use of which, as everyone knows, is merely a passing fad. :rotf:
Newbe said:
ALL grain weights are WEIGHTS. People use volume measures for BP but 75 grains of BP is SUPPOSED to be 75 grains BY weight. But most BPs are not of the same density as the powder used to calibrate the measure if an adjustable one is used. OR they vary from lot to lot enough to change the charge WEIGHT when the same volume is used.
I know how many grains, by weight, I shoot because I check them with a scale. This way I can reproduce the charge when I want to. There is no other way.
I dislike adjustable measures they tend to ding stocks. So I make them out of antler. If I loose it I can make another that holds the same charge weight cause I have a scale.
It is possible load smokeless by volume if you KNOW how much WEIGHT the volume measure holds of the powder being used.
Lee makes sets of powder dippers that are volume measures and a table to tell how much of a given powder a given number dipper will hold. But its a poor idea IMO though I have loaded smokeless like this years ago.
So buy a powder scale, I recommend a digital, it will tell you how much powder you are actually using. It will also tell you how much powder a teaspoon measure will hold.
Dan
About the same as the others here. The available powder measures are in the ball park when useing 2F black powder. I have checked mine against a scale and 3F does weigh a little heavier. It is my understanding that the subtitutes are made to supply equal power when used in these measures. T7 will be hotter so they suggest reduced loads.
Once I get a measure setting that produces good accuracy I make one out of antler that measures out the same. It is then that I weigh it to mark my measure! Geo. T.
Once I get a measure setting that produces good accuracy I make one out of antler that measures out the same. It is then that I weigh it to mark my measure! Geo. T.
A kitchen measuring teaspoon (leveled) will hold 72 grns of 2f Goex by weight so 1/8 teaspoon is about 9 grains of powderNewbe said:
But like others are explaining, powder measured for charge is usually done by volume.
The above "teaspoon" measurement will help you when making your own "Volume measure"
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That would depend of granulation and how many fines are in the powder. Some folks in the black powder cartridge community sock or sieve their powder so most of the grains are the same. Then you can get a consistent measure rate without weighing.
Swiss is the best powder I have seen for lack of fines and Cartridge and Express Goex(both discontinued) are next best in my opinion.
I used to use both a measure and a scale then drop tube all charges into cases but the column heights were never the same so neither was the compression which had more effect on accuracy than did the minor differences in volume from a measure.
I dropped the weighing and can tell no difference in my scores.
That is the reason I don't think it makes any difference in a muzzle loaders because the compression by over all seating depth is not effected as with a cartridge. MD
Swiss is the best powder I have seen for lack of fines and Cartridge and Express Goex(both discontinued) are next best in my opinion.
I used to use both a measure and a scale then drop tube all charges into cases but the column heights were never the same so neither was the compression which had more effect on accuracy than did the minor differences in volume from a measure.
I dropped the weighing and can tell no difference in my scores.
That is the reason I don't think it makes any difference in a muzzle loaders because the compression by over all seating depth is not effected as with a cartridge. MD
Disagree. 
My response is to not sweat weights. The amount that works best in your rifle is what counts. An adjustable measure might read 70 grains in one measure and 65 in another with the same volume of powder. It is, at best, a guide. Some of the more anal type target shooters do weigh their loads. That's OK if you are will to do all the fuss and bother. The key is consistency.
As for FFg and FFFg weighing differently in equal volumes, not always. It depends on how the powder was made. Some scientific types can put you to sleep explaining surface area of individual powder grains and how size doesn't matter.
Use the KISS principal, test your rifle and what works, works. After you find that your measure can be made or set to that volume and you can pretty much forget what it is in numbers. The idea is to enjoy, not do arithemtic.
My response is to not sweat weights. The amount that works best in your rifle is what counts. An adjustable measure might read 70 grains in one measure and 65 in another with the same volume of powder. It is, at best, a guide. Some of the more anal type target shooters do weigh their loads. That's OK if you are will to do all the fuss and bother. The key is consistency.
As for FFg and FFFg weighing differently in equal volumes, not always. It depends on how the powder was made. Some scientific types can put you to sleep explaining surface area of individual powder grains and how size doesn't matter.
Use the KISS principal, test your rifle and what works, works. After you find that your measure can be made or set to that volume and you can pretty much forget what it is in numbers. The idea is to enjoy, not do arithemtic.
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Acorn Mush said:
That's a useful link, and I thank you.
I'm surprised no one has put it up but there's another right here on the ML site
One more thing about volumetric measures worth pointing out: You have to use them ferzackly the same way each time, or you can get some pretty wild yaws in the actual amount of powder they dispense. Black powder is prone to settling with a little vibration or tamping, and you can get a lot more of it into a measure than you think. That could be an issue for anyone cranking out max loads. Heck, even going from a horn with a narrow spout and slow pour to one with a larger spout and fast pour can really change the results.
If I was a match shooter and worried ayetall about exact powder match from one shot to the next, I'd be leaning over a powder scale. But the way I shoot.... :rotf: Probably do just as well pouring it into the palm of my hand and eyeballing. :grin:
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Somewhere... there was a written account of target shooters in the 1800's. They brought little bottles containing pre-weighed charges to the match. Don't know where I read it. :idunno: Do folks still do that at matches?
Are you kidding? :rotf: :rotf:
Excuse me while I stop laughing....... :haha:
There are some shooters, mostly slug gun and bench rest guys who bring machine shops, kitchen sinks, monastic monks to sing chants, new age dancers, strange idols and whatever else possible, or impossible to the range to help them (in their minds) shoot accurately. Small bottles of powder would not even be noticed.
Seriously (well....as serious as I can get after your question. :grin: ) we all have our own quirks, methods and routines at shoots. :v
Monestic Monks? I thought Tibetan practicing Nyensen/Tentru Yultru was better.
Don't forget the drop tubes and extra graphite.
Don't forget the drop tubes and extra graphite.
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That's true and if you have ever drop tubed one gets an idea of just how much powder will settle from just being dumped into a measure from a pour spout.
I have also tried vibration after drop tubing and nothing more happened. I'm sure it would had I not drop tubed first though.
Another interesting thing about black powder compression is most all of it happens in the top third of the powder column when using a compression die in a case.
I ran some experiments one time in plastic tubes so the grain compression could be observed. MD
I have also tried vibration after drop tubing and nothing more happened. I'm sure it would had I not drop tubed first though.
Another interesting thing about black powder compression is most all of it happens in the top third of the powder column when using a compression die in a case.
I ran some experiments one time in plastic tubes so the grain compression could be observed. MD
For anyone interested in getting an inexpensive scale here's what I did. www.scienceforyou.net is where I purchase chemicals for 'novelty' BP targets. I needed a small digital scale and they had one for $15.
It measures in grams, ounces, pennyweight and grains. Max capactiy is 555 grams, 19.58 oz, 356.9dwt or 8565 grains. Accuracy is +/-0.1g, 0.01oz,0.1dwt or 1.0gn
I don't suppose it would be used by NASA, but it works just fine for my purposes. Here is a pic of mine (I added the velcro).
It measures in grams, ounces, pennyweight and grains. Max capactiy is 555 grams, 19.58 oz, 356.9dwt or 8565 grains. Accuracy is +/-0.1g, 0.01oz,0.1dwt or 1.0gn
I don't suppose it would be used by NASA, but it works just fine for my purposes. Here is a pic of mine (I added the velcro).
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Rifleman1776 said:
Was that a yes or a no?
GoodCheer said:
I've shot at a number of rendezvous where the rules have specifically stated "no premeasured charges". One can not help but wonder just how much advantage a premeasured charge would give a competitor out there standin' on their hind legs, a-swayin' in the breeze, tryin' to sight that far target that seems to be fadin' into the background every time you look through the sights. :rotf:
