Paper Cartridges

I killed a couple hours today watching many vid's on Cap & Ball revolvers. My question is have our forum members tried paper cartridges. They did not empty the powder as done in muskets so I wonder if it slows ignition or leaves smoldering paper behind. It darn sure speeded up loading.

I guess this is the result of to much time on my hands! Geo. T.

Follow this link.

Scroll up to the top and start reading. There's a lot of information and opinions given.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...tid/267784/post/1128696/fromsearch/1/#1128696

The vidoes I seen the guy broke open the end and pored in the powder then used the paper as wading then the ball.

I was thinking of getting a pouch on my belt to hold some paper cartridges but I would not want them to get a spark from my pistol or a campfire and go off on my belt. Not that it would happen but then again it could.

Now the last two videos I just watched they both loaded the whole thing but to me it dont seem to cut a ring. It might but I could not see it.

Just to see what to make I bought some .44 paper cartridges from Dixie Gun Works.
I didn't tear the base open, just rammed them down in my 1858 remington, capped it up and shot it two days later. They performed just like the other loads I shot the old way.
The label says they have 28 grains of 3 F and I couldn't tell the difference from the 30 grains I loaded half the cylinder with. They all shaved a ring of lead when I loaded them. They're too spendy but I wanted to try a few before I make my own.

I have made a bunch of them. Both blank and live. (Why we call it live I will never know since the object is to make things dead). I have used nitrated cigaret paper. The old Zig-Zags'. After making a ton of them I came to the conclusion it takes to much time(thats why Dixie's are expensive). I'll stick with the old pour and pack method. as an aside. They worked fine, just to much work and then you need to make the special wrapper to keep them safe so they didn't bust. or carry around in a pistol cartridge box. Interesting experiment tho.

Dicky - How did you find the paper cartridges at DIXIE Online? I figured getting to the lead balls would get me to paper cartridges but I struck out. Did an advance search for them and strike 2.

I entered paper cartridge on the home page and it came up.

They are under Reloading-Ammo and Blanks.... :hatsoff:

Thank you very much! I watched that vid as well! Geo. T.

YEOW! Dicky, I'll say they're spendy! It's like buying ammo for rifles you're taking on safari!

Geo T said:

My question is have our forum members tried paper cartridges. They did not empty the powder as done in muskets so I wonder if it slows ignition or leaves smoldering paper behind. It darn sure speeded up loading.

Click to expand...

Yes, I shoot my own paper cartridges and no there are no burning embers or smoldering paper.

Zig Zag or French Light 1-1/4" rolling paper, .451 or .454 ball and yes, that's a lubed wad on top of 30 grains of BP. Even after sitting in the box for over a month they shoot just fine. A dowel was poorly tapered to allow the paper cartridge to drop right in up to the wad, thumb it down to the ball and use the rammer to seat the ball. They go boom every time.


More Photos

I've never been accused of overdoing it on safety issues but I have used cigarette paper and I have had some residue in the chambers, so....always take a look at the chambers before cramming in another combustible cartridge. Load as is- no need to tear open the back of the cartridge.

Dixie sells the reprinted 1861 ordinance manual (USA army) which shows the specs on various regulation paper cartridges. I'm almost sure it has them for the .44 cartridge, can't quite remember if it does have the pistol ones or not.

Thick, lots of info on the substances for all the ordinance(lubes, leathers, coloring fluids, etc.).
EDIT: (And more useful after the internet age because you can look up the chemical formula on the net for all the old common names the chemicals had that nobody uses any more).

I may be wrong but I think a lot of the Army specs were for private manufacturers. Some of them really seemed ridiculous to me, such as soaking the cartridges for four hours and then trying to fire them. Colt sealed his paper cartridges in a shellaced wood box, same with D C Sage, so they passed the test whereas Johnston & Dow (spic?) failed because only half the rounds fired. There's a lot of variation in the originals. Colt started with thin tin and then switched to paper. DC Sage used fish gut, Johnston & Dow (and their assigns) had no case- sort of like a shellaced pyrodex pellet glued to a conical. I think sulphuric acid (in addition to nitrates)was used on the Colt paper to insure it would burn up but it was corrosive to the gun. As I said I use plain old Bugler cigarette paper but there have been times I've had small bits of burnt paper left in the chamber.

I also use cigarette rolling paper. It doesn't always burn up completely and leaves some paper in the chamber.

I use flash paper it does burn up completely.



William Alexander

I make my own nitrocellulose paper. I use model airplane silkspan paper. I dissolve a little smokeless powder with VMP Naptha. Or if outdoors, you can use Acetone. I use a small mason jelly jar for this. Stirring the mix with a dowel rod. I just put about 3/8" solvent in the jar and then trickle a little powder in. Then mix until powder dissolves. It takes very little powder to get a slightly thickened liquid. When you reach this stage, you can use a small paint brush to brush it on to the silkspan. I do this with the silkspan on top of aluminum foil. I have used the medium and heavy weight silkspan and it burns completely. Before painting a large area of the paper, try a small section so you can tear it off when dry and try a burn test with a match. It should burn completely with no ash left. It drys fast enough that you can test and adjust the mix if needed.

Use of this advice is at your own risk. I am not a chemist. And I do not store any of the liquid mix after I apply it to the silkspan. A ball powder dissolves quickly but for those that do not reload, powder from a cut shot-shell will work. It does not take very much powder to make the paper burn with no ash left. And this does not included burning of the black powder.

I thought of the process because they used to dissolve old movie film as the source of cellulose in smokeless powder. And I had 2 grades of silkspan from model building. Silkspan is the old covering used to cover so called stick n tissue model planes.

I forgot to add these links.

This is the method I use except he uses Saltpetre

Link

Shooting them: Link