dissapointing Sitting Fox

A lot of the problems in this thread are due to the desire of many to go cheap,it has become a national trait.This is a general statement not aimed at anyone on here.The best way to be assured of quality is to find a builder near you and deal with him.That way you can examine his work and get what you want.An alternative is to buy at a rendy, gun show,or over the counter.That way you get what you see.

I have built I think 7 of his kits without issue. And my dad picked 2 more up for me on wed and said all the parts were there looked good and that the stock was top quality. Never had an issue with one of Ray's kits ever.

I knew they are a middle man operation

Click to expand...

Do they reveal that on their website?
I'm going to check. If not, a question of honesty comes into the equation.

Rifleman1776 said:

I knew they are a middle man operation

Click to expand...

Do they reveal that on their website?
I'm going to check. If not, a question of honesty comes into the equation.

Click to expand...

I read his website and nowhere does he mention the builds are outsourced. In fact, the wording would/could lead one to believe he does the work himself. SF is being deleted from my Favorites list and will not be among those I consider for my next build.

Rifleman1776 said:

Rifleman1776 said:

I knew they are a middle man operation

Click to expand...

Do they reveal that on their website?
I'm going to check. If not, a question of honesty comes into the equation.

Click to expand...

I read his website and nowhere does he mention the builds are outsourced. In fact, the wording would/could lead one to believe he does the work himself.

Click to expand...

My take is a little different.

"Sitting Fox" is a company name. I don't assume anything about who is actually doing the work, within a company.

All I can find about "building" is this...
"Custom gun building services are also available to furnish assembled guns for you to finish, or completed custom guns made to your specifications."

Nowhere am I lead to believe that Ray makes all the guns himself.

Rifleman1776 said:

I read his website and nowhere does he mention the builds are outsourced.

Click to expand...

I don`t think it says anywhere that they`re not outsourced either. I learned a long time ago that to assume anything is usually a bad idea.

:bow: From personal experience, listed on this forum previously, I absolutely will not buy anything from Sitting Fox. Caveat Emptor prevails.I'll stick with Log Cabin, Jim Chambers, etc. They understand the meaning of honesty and integrity. Ron

Either way, if they are not standing behind their products....and I have no way to know that they are not other than what is being posted here....it's just bad business.

Sometimes, in these cases, it is wise to correspond in writing. If the company will not give the customer satisfaction they are less likely to do so in writing. Of course, this assumes you get a reply. If not I guess one method of recourse is to tell everybody you know to hopefully prevent them from experiencing the same.

Enjoy, J.D.

After reading this I don't think I will be ordering one of their kits. I had considered it for my first smoothie but not now

Nowhere on the TVM site does it state who is going to build a gun you order from them either.. Lets blacklist them all, because none of them list a specific builder that will make the gun. With all respect until we have proof this gun was built by SF lets not smash talk someones business that is a solid player in the muzzleloading industry since there is such few left now. There still no proof present other than word of mouth and if I made a turd lookin gun I would blame someone else too..

I have talked with Ray yesterday about this gun and states he has had no one complain about a smoothbore gun build. And if there is any issues with any of his guns he will stand behind his products and do right by the customer. He feels as though this was a kit gun someone attempted to build and the outcome was poor. Its common place in the business for others to put their work off as others when its bad, and to take credit for quality work of others as their own. Perfect example I had a guy at a rendevous state I built his gun and did a poor job. Later in the day the word got back to me and I approached the gentleman and looked at the gun and said it wasn't one of mine, he flat out called me a liar in front of everyone. This upset me so I called his bluff and asked him to remove the buttplate of the rifle if my marks are under it I would give him 2500 dollars cash for this crappy turd rifle build, he refused of course saying he wasn't taken his gun apart to prove a point and left. Theres people everyday playin bullcrap games and if called on it look like buttclowns.

Also the customer never was reported as complaining to the company about the build either which kind of debunks this claim of crappy building on the part of sitting fox in my opinion.

Jim Chambers only sells kit guns, he no longer builds guns to sell. It says so on his website, but he can set you up with a builder that can build the gun for you. So lets black list him too. Until people provide proof the gun was built by Ray or the a reppresentative of Sitting Fox itself then all thats going on is slandering a company. Point blank and simple.

Before hanging the Fox by the tail or paws or whatever a fox gets hung by I would want to see the gun in question.

What one person considers a horrible job might be considered 'borderline acceptable' by another.

Conversely, I've seen a few guns built by some people that make me shudder all over but those people think it looks fine.

I know this particular gun was apparently supplied by Sitting Fox but I've seen cases where a gun 'bought from' one place turned out to be a kit and it was 'built by a friend' (who did a terrible job of it).

Just sayin'.

Thats exactly my point Zonie.. :bow: :surrender:

Either way, if they are not standing behind their products....and I have no way to know that they are not other than what is being posted here....it's just bad business.

Click to expand...

I din't say that.
The owner is happy with what he has. As a newbie to ml he really doesn't know the difference. Except he was unhappy when I cut myself on the patchbox that was knife sharp and sticking out beyond the butt plate.

He feels as though this was a kit gun someone attempted to build and the outcome was poor.

Click to expand...

Not the way it is.
Finished gun. As I described is as received.

Little John Z.- First of all, thank you for your service to our country. When you can, please stop by my home here in northern Ohio and I will show you my experience with Mr. Franks. There appears to be quite a few people that have had negative experience with SF, and numbers don't lie. I don't question SF's honesty or integrity, but, with this many unhappy customers, his business practices are in serious doubt. Thanks again for your service. Shoot straight.

Little John Z said:

Jim Chambers only sells kit guns, he no longer builds guns to sell. It says so on his website, but he can set you up with a builder that can build the gun for you. So lets black list him too.....

Click to expand...

I know you meant this tongue in cheek but there is a distict difference here. The company in question apparently doesn't tell people work is being "farmed out".

On Chambers, there really is no comparison. They put you in contact with a builder/s. It is your responsibility to negotiate with that builder and vet him/her to see if they build guns up to your standards. They don't just send your kit out to somebody of their choosing to be completed.

I'm not lobbying to have anyone put a "black list" as I have no dog in this hunt. My statement above was generalized and directed at business in general.

If I were the proprietor of Sitting Fox and there was dissention over the quality of the products I produce then I would want to know about it. Props to you, Little John Z, for letting Ray know as there is nothing he can do about it if he doesn't.

Enjoy, J.D.

1776Patriot said:

I was seriously considering ordering a kit from Sitting Fox for a winter project for my grand-daughter's birthday. Are similar problems encountered with the quality of kit parts?

Click to expand...

If you are looking for a nice quality youth rifle check out Brad Emig at Cabin Creek. Chambers used to do a a "little feller's rifle" too but I didn't see it on their website the last time I looked.